Updated: 04/18/2017 - Site operated by Leptigen
By Summer Banks Mar 29, 2017

I need to make a confession: I was obsessed with researching NingXia Red. We’ve heard a lot of buzz about it, so our in-depth review examined the ingredients, side effects, science and customer service. Plus, we read hundreds user comments from all over the internet. Then, we summarized and condensed it all to give you the information you are looking for.

NingXia Red Readers: Click here to find out why we're giving away samples of our product, Leptigen.

What is NingXia Red?

First off, NingXia Red is a superfruit supplement containing wolfberry, blueberry, pomegranate, apricot, plum, aronia, cherry, and raspberry juices with organic blue agave, grape pomace, vitamin C, grape seed extract, vanilla extract, pectin and lemon an orange essential oils. Take four ounces per day and supposedly you’ll improve health and wellness. It doesn’t have to be mixed with water, so it can be taken any time, anywhere. [1]

NingXia Red was created in 1993, by Young Living founder, Gary Young. It’s intended to boost overall health and increase energy levels. We do like the longevity of the company, the fact the drink uses all natural ingredients and that it is available on the official website, but read on…

The Price – “Expensive?”

The first concern with NingXia ingredients is the cost. “While this drink is definitely a source of nutrition, it doesn’t contain any clinically proven weight-loss formula,” said our Research Editor. “Also, a two-pack of NingXia Red costs $71. At the recommended serving, one bottle would last about a week.”

One user said, “A bit pricey.”

”I will continue to take Ningxia Red when I’m sick but won’t take it on a daily basis because its too damn expensive,” said another.

MLM – “Difficult to Purchase a Small Supply of Ningxia Red?”

NingXia is part of a MLM company, which means sales are often made on a large-scale basis. People can purchase the product without signing up to run a business of their own, but the process is a bit complex.

One online report on MLM opportunities asks all the right questions. “If this product or service is so great, then why isn’t it being sold through the customary marketing system that has served human society for thousands of years? Why does it need to resort to a “special marketing” scheme like an MLM? Why does everyone need to be so inexperienced at marketing this! Is the product just a thin cover for what is really a pyramid scheme of exploiting others?”

Our research indicates that if there’s part of a diet program that’s difficult, like needing to drink supplements throughout the day or maintaining the cost of such a large supply, is enough to derail chances of long-term success. To take the recommended dose on a regular basis could be hard for many user wallets to sustain.

The Science – “Clinical Proof?”

We were unable to find any published research to support any of the main ingredients in NingXia Red in relation to weight-loss. [2] For the team here at DietSpotlight, clinical science is important to our recommendation. If there isn’t any that’s easily uncovered, that’s a red flag for us. [3]

Also: read our Leptigen Weight-Loss Kit review »

The Bottom Line – Does Ningxia Work?

So, this one is unique, but is it worth the high price? We were initially excited to review NingXia, but that interest soon faded. There are no clinical studies to support any connection with weight-loss, so we have trouble suggesting this one. [4][5] It’s also a bit concerning that the cost is more than $125 a month for a fruit drink.

If you want to drop weight, we recommend choosing a supplement that delivers value for the money and is made with clinically proven ingredients aimed at helping with appetite suppression and fat burning.

Among the best products we’ve seen this year is one called Leptigen. It contains a proprietary blend of four ingredients, associated with fat burning and boosts in metabolism. The formula is supported by scientific research. We’ve been unable to find talk of negative results or side effects and reports indicate people are seeing some amazing results.

We’re happy to see the makers of Leptigen are so confident in their product they’re giving new customers a Special Trial Offer, which is a good thing.

Previous NingXia Red Review (Updated April 10, 2014):

What You Should Know about Ningxia Red

Ningxia, or Ningxia Red, is a Goji juice Superfruit drink that supplies antioxidants to the body. The official website claims energy, restoration of healthy cells and replenishment of essential antioxidants to the body. While the supplement was not created as a weight loss solution, many testimonials claim increased energy and decreased cravings for sugar. Eating less sugar could lead to weight loss as an indirect benefit of Ningxia.

List of Ningxia Red Ingredients

Whole Ningxia wolfberry puree-a superblend of blueberry, pomegranate, apricot, and raspberry juices; organic blue agave; grape pomace (water extracted); ascorbic acid (vitamin C); and lemon and orange pure essential oils.

Product Features

Every once in a while a new ingredient hits the weight loss market and supplement companies take that ingredient and run. Goji Berry was such an ingredient, but when the market became oversaturated with Goji supplements, manufacturers simply used alternative names for the same ingredient to establish new supplement lines with "unique" ingredients. Goji Berry is also known as Tibetan Goji, Himalayan Goji, Bocksdorn and Chinese Wolfberry. If the dieter is not careful, they could try multiple weight loss supplements all with the same ingredient and never know the difference.

Ningxia Red is a wolfberry based supplement with a few other ingredients thrown in for good measure. Not one of the ingredients listed for Ningxia will increase metabolism and may actually add unneeded calories to the diet. Typically, only one ounce of Ningxia is taken, but that one ounce is packed with natural sugars and fruit purees. Ningxia claims the wolfberry has a low glycemic load when compared to table sugar. This may be the case, but Ningxia does not contain just wolfberry extract. The raspberry, blueberry, pomegranate, apricot, lemon, orange and other fruit oils, juices and purees are sure to alter the overall glycemic load of Ningxia. Higher glycemic loads tend to cause blood sugar fluctuation and possibly hunger.

Ningxia Red sells for $52.30 per liter. One liter can last 33 days if the dieter takes only one ounce per day. If two ounces are taken per day, the bottle will last only two weeks.

Advantages of Ningxia Red

  • Wolfberry is a strong antioxidant.
  • Natural fruit juices support healthy fiber levels.

Disadvantages of Ningxia Red

  • Antioxidants do not burn more calories.
  • Wolfberry is not a fat burner or proven weight loss aid.
  • Ningxia carries a high price tag.


There is nothing about the Ningxia Red supplement that a dieter would benefit from in terms of weight loss. There is a chance that improved health from increasing antioxidant intake could have some residual effect on weight loss, but the link is minimal at best. Fat burners increase metabolism and antioxidants heal. They typically can be taken together, however, which could be one choice if the dieter wants to improve metabolism and overall health.

NingXia Red Questions & Answers:

We condensed hundreds of user comments about NingXia into this helpful FAQ.

What are the side effects of Ning?

Ning or NingXia side effects, based on some dieters reviews, could include increased energy and an increase in immunity[1].

What is in NingXia?

NingXia ingredients are wolfberry puree, blueberry juice concentrate, plum juice concentrate, cherry juice concentrate, aronia juice concentrate, pomegranate juice concentrate, grape seed extract[2], orange EO, yuzu EO, lemon EO, tangerine EO, tartaric acid, natural blueberry flavor, pure vanilla extract, malic acid, pectin, sodium benzoate/natural stevia extract.

What is the active ingredient in Ningxia Red?

The active ingredient in Ningxia Red is wolfberry puree.

Does NingXia work?

There’s are no published clinical research showing NingXia helps dieters lose weight. The profile promotes antioxidant effects, but there are no studies to support the claims.

How much does Ning cost?

A bottle of NingXia costs $35.50. The minimum you can purchase is a two-pack.

How do you take NingXia?

You take a  4 oz. shot of NingXia once per day, for a minimum of three weeks.

Can I take NingXia if I have a health condition?

If you are taking prescription medications, pregnant or nursing, under the age of 18, or have other health problems, you should contact a healthcare professional prior to using any herbal supplement, including NingXia.

What do users like about NingXia?

Users like that NingXia tastes good and it may decrease aches and pains.

What do users NOT like about NingXia?

Users do not like that Ning is expensive.

Who makes NingXia?

The makers of NingXia is Young Living Essential Oils.

How do I contact the NingXia customer service department?

You can contact the NingXia customer service department by writing correspondence to Young Living Essential Oils Thanksgiving Point Business Park 3125 Executive Pkwy. Lehi, UT 84043, by calling an agent at 1-801-418-8900 or by emailing customerservice@youngliving.com.

Can I contact NingXia through social media?

Yes, you can contact Ning through Facebook and Twitter.

What is the shelf life of NingXia?

If the NingXia is unopened, the shelf life can be as long as 18 months. If opened, you should keep it refrigerated and enjoy within 30 days.

Is NingXia vegetarian or vegan?

Yes, NingXia is vegetarian and vegan.

Do you know of any special deals or discounts on NingXia?

If you buy multiple bottles of Ning on the official website, you can save up to $40.00. However, our readers have been taking advantage of Leptigen’s Special Trial Offer. Click above to learn more.

  • References
  • 1. Immunity (Not listed). Dictionary.com. December 8, 2016.
  • 2. Grape Seed Extract (Not listed). WebMD. December 8, 2016.

NingXia Red User Tips:

7 Top User Tips

Over the years, it’s become apparent that the people who use Ningxia Red have something to say. After consulting thousands of reviews and comments we gathered some of the most useful tips to help you learn more about this product.


“I prefer to put mine in the refrigerator and drink them cold.” Jessica


“I put it in my smoothie every morning so I don’t have to drink it straight.” Susan


“I put an ounce in my first glass of red wine to help make it more palatable.” Bill


“I buy the travel ones to take with me when I have to go someplace for work so I don’t have to take the full sized bottle.” Caroline


“It’s really important to shake this well because of how it can separate when it sits.” Ellen


“It’s best to drink it daily so the bottle doesn’t go bad. It’s like most drinks and you can’t leave it and expect it to still taste good after a month.” Linda


“This is really much better if you drink it cold. Trying to drink it at room temperature is gross.” Pauline

NingXia Red Scientific Abstracts:


The effects of wild blueberry juice, consumed daily, were evaluated within nine older adults with early memory changes. By the 12 week mark, improved paired associate learning (p = 0.009) as well as word list recall (p = 0.04) had been improved. Additionally there had been a tendency indicating decreased glucose levels (p = 0.10) and decreased depressive symptoms (p = 0.08). Memory performances of the blueberry subjects were compared to a demographically-matched sample that had ingested a placebo drink made from berry in a companion trial of similar make-up and had noted comparable results. The conclusion of the study had indicated that moderate-term blueberry supplement could contain a neurocognitive benefit, but more comprehensive human trials need to be carried out to study its full preventive potential. [1]


Prunes, in the form of simple sugars, have been found to be a great source of energy, but do not create a quick elevation in blood sugar concentrations. This is potentially due to high fiber, sorbitol and fructose content. Prunes possess a high amount of phenolic compounds (184 mg/100 g), mostly as chlorogenic and neochlorogenic acids, which could trigger the laxative action as well as slow absorption of glucose. Phenolic compounds that are found in prunes have been seen to inhibit human LDL oxidation in vitro, thus may be a beneficial compound in the fight against chronic diseases (i.e. heart disease and cancer). The high potassium makeup of prunes (745 mg/100 g) may be a helpful aid regarding cardiovascular health. Dried prunes boast a crucially important source of boron, which helps in the prevention of osteoporosis. In fact, a serving of 100g of prunes is the required daily source of boron (2mg – 3mg). [2]

Grape Seed

Products made from grapes and grape seed are widely known as a dietary source that has displayed cancer chemopreventive as well as seen to improve overall health in humans. There have been advancements in anticancer and cancer chemopreventive efficacy of grape seed extract as well as other products made from grapes. Completed studies from an array of scientific groups have come to the conclusion that grapes and grape-based products are a magnificent source for a wide range of anticancer agents, making it safe and beneficial to consume for the human population. [3]


Antioxidant potency of pomegranate juice is higher than that of green tea and red wine, which is triggered via and hydrosable tannins. Pomegranate juice has the ability to decrease free radicals, macrophage oxidative stress and lipid peroxidation. Even more so, pomegranate fruit triggers apoptosis as well as preventing cell growth. Promoter suppression of a few inflammatory markers is suppressed through ellagitannins. [4]

NingXia Red Side Effects:

Ningxia is a fruit-filled drink that is designed to increase overall health and boost energy levels. Even though side effects don’t happen every day, we found users comments showing you they still do.


“… [it] gave me terrible heartburn.”    Mandi


“Both of us [my husband and I] complained of being tired shortly after the first time we tried it.”    Allison


“I am constantly tired and always feel washed out.”    Karen


“I sampled it once and had acid reflux instantly.”    Jan


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Even when one has the best intentions – of losing weight and regaining a healthy lifestyle, side-effects still need to be identified and considered. This is always the case when one makes adjustments to their diet, eating behavior, or the taking of medications or supplements. When taking Ningxia, users have reported the following side effects.


Indigestion, also called dyspepsia, is defined as a persistent or recurrent pain or discomfort in the upper abdomen. Indigestion can be a burning feeling in the stomach or upper intestine. It can be accompanied by belching or gas, a growling stomach, and in worse cases, nausea and vomiting.[1]

What causes indigestion?

Indigestion can have many origins. First, disease. Ulcers, cancer, IBS and thyroid issues can cause indigestion. Another trigger is lifestyle related and can show up as a result of overeating, smoking, drinking and stress. Indigestion can also result from the taking of medications (both prescribed and over-the-counter) or supplements.


Diarrhea is loose, watery bowel. It is typically accompanied by cramping and abdominal pain. Acute diarrhea can last from a couple hours to a couple days. Chronic diarrhea lasts several days and can even be life-threatening as the body becomes more and more dehydrated. Most people experience diarrhea from time to time. Diarrhea is the body’s way of emptying itself of its contents, usually as it senses something is not right.

What causes diarrhea?

Acute diarrhea can be brought on by many factors such as lactose intolerance, fructose intolerance, food resistance, food poisoning, E coli and usage of medications and supplements. Chronic diarrhea can have much more serious causes such as colon cancer, IBD, ulcer, or Celiac disease.[2]


When the body senses a problem with the contents in the stomach, it will automatically protect itself by emptying itself. Vomiting is when the stomach ejects its contents through the mouth. All people vomit from time to time. Generally, people sense that they are preparing to vomit through the sensation of nausea which precedes vomiting.

What causes vomiting?

Many things can cause vomiting including food poisoning, spicy foods, food intolerance, alcohol, medications, supplements, flu and general anesthesia. One of the most triggers is motion sickness. More severe causes include cancer, ulcer, concussion, obstruction, bulimia and heart failure.

When considering health or weight-loss supplements, it is essential to look into the potential side-effects that might accompany it. With Ningxia, there are several unwanted effects that have been reported.

Ningxia is a superfruit drink with a long list of antioxidant-rich ingredients. There's no direct connection to weight-loss, but the idea behind it is more about supporting overall health.

NingXia Red Ingredients and Supplement Facts

Serving Size: 1 Fl. Oz.
Serving Per Container: 25
Amount per Serving % DV
Proprietay NingXia Red Blend 29g *
- Whole Ningxia Wolfberry Puree * *
- Blueberry Juice from Concentrate * *
- Plum Juice from Concentrate * *
- Cherry Juice from Concentrate * *
- Aronia Juice from Concentrate * *
- Pomegranate Juice from Concentrate * *
Proprietary Essential Blend 50mg *
- Grape Seed Extract * *
- Orange Rind Oil * *
- Yuzu Rind Oil * *
- Lemon Rind Oil * *
- Tangerine Rind Oil * *

Other Ingredients: None

We reviewed NingXia Red ingredients in order to give you the facts you really want.


Wolfberry, commonly known as goji berry[1], is a Chinese fruit that is commonly used in medicine. It can also be found in Chinese cuisine.

What Is It Supposed To Do?

When found in medicine, wolfberry[2] is used to treat nosebleeds, erectile dysfunction, high blood pressure, dizziness, sweating, and fevers.

Clinical Research

According to a study published in the Journal of Alternative and Complementary Medicine,, “…GoChi [wolfberry] for 14 days increases subjective feelings of general well-being, and improves neurologic/psychologic performance and gastrointestinal functions…[however,]… All parametric data (body weight, etc.) were not significantly different between groups or between day 1 and day 15 for either group.”

Blueberry Juice

Blueberry juice is derived from the fruit and is used heavily in other food products. It can also be an ingredient in various medications.

What Is It Supposed To Do?

Blueberries are thought to help treat diabetes, cataracts, urinary tract infections, multiple sclerosis, fever, sore throat, diarrhea, and pain.

Clinical Research

When researchers tested the combination of blueberry and mulberry juice on obesity, they came to the conclusion that, “… blueberry and mulberry juice may help counteract obesity.” Tests were not done on blueberry alone and these effects were seen on rats. This study was published in A Peer-Reviewed, Open Access Journal.

Plum Juice

Plum juice contains many antioxidants, minerals, and vitamins, all of which can be extremely beneficial to general health. It also contains a significant amount of dietary fiber, which can be good for the digestive system.

What Is It Supposed To Do?

Plum juice may help aid in weight-loss, prevent heart attacks, prevent strokes, improve eye health, benefit pregnancy, and aid in easing constipation.

Clinical Research

According to a study published in Research in Pharmaceutical Sciences. “Our findings demonstrate that juice and hydroalcoholic fractions of P. divaricata [plums] reduce FBG and improve lipid profile after continuous use especially in long term schedule.” Nothing was tested on the subjects’ weight-loss.

One that’s caught our attention is one that contains some clinically-tested ingredients like Leptigen. Want to learn more about it? Click above.

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Dietspotlight Author
About the Author:

Summer Banks, a content strategist at Leptigen, has researched over 5000 products in the past 10 years. She has years of nursing training, experience as a manager responsible for 15 supplement brands, and completed coursework on Food and Nutrition from Stanford University. full bio.

Rating: 3.5. From 180 votes.
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User Comments (75)


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I’ve been drinking Ningxia Red since Jan. and I’ve felt great. It boost immunity, gives natural energy and overall maintenance. The recommended dose is 1-2 oz. daily. I typically just take 1 oz. It last a month and its over $1 a day. To me its worth every penny. I purchased the kit to begin with and now order the 4 pack bottles on the essential rewards program so I earn points and usually I cash them in on the bottles. Its not complex to order through Young Living whether you do retain or become a member. As a member you receive wholesale pricing.


I do the same as Julie. It is not complicated and very affordable to do this way. I feel great and love the benefits!


Ningxia Red isn’t marketed as a weight loss supplement….it’s marketed as total body nutrition. It is exactly what they say it is….so I agree that if you’re looking for a quick way to lose weight, NR alone isn’t it. But if you want to feel better and be more healthy, and can afford it then do it! I drink NR religiously during pregnancy…something I can’t do with these other products and I give it to ALL of my kiddos (even my infant) to support immunity and I’ve noticed amazing “side effects” in their health and we’ll being.

Bertha Moher

Ningxia red has more than just “fruit juices” which are all natural but it is infused with oils which support the immune system. Also has high fiber content. Two bottles actually last me a month and that is with two of us taking our shots daily. I don’t take the 4 oz only 2 oz per day and still feel a lot better with energy and stamina throughout the day and I am going to be 65 in May of this year. I am excited to share with others a total body oil infused antioxidant that has been researched and because of the ingredients can be backed up scientifically that it is a health drink like no other. Thank you for listening.


Take 2 oz NingXia Red.and other essentials oils daily has lowered cholesterol by 50 points in six months!


I started talking it and went from a pot of coffee a day down to a cup of coffee and have more energy than ever even in the evening when the coffee wore off I was done for the day not with this stuff I have evening energy now!! It’s great!! A shot a day like 1.5 oz.


I don’t know about it from a dietary standpoint, but what I can say is one of my hiking buddies passed these out at camp claiming they made all your aches and pains go away. I was skeptical, and didn’t take them the first few days, then I metabolically crashed. He gave me one of the Red shots and one of their Nitro shots and I felt fantastic.


My white blood cell count was low after chemo. Nothing helped. I started 1 Oz of ninxia daily. 3 years and blood counts are normal and no sniffle or cold for 3 years. It’s worth every penny

Your Name

After three years your body’s white blood cell count is going to return to normal.

Your NameDouglas

I have been taking the product for over 2 years on and off If I start feeling tired or my back pain and neck problems arise I take 4 ounces for a couple weeks and I’m a new person I am a member but don’t sell or try pushing on to someone else only for my own benefit I had one of my employees looking to quitting his job due to back pain and could not make it though a night of work and docs
or chiropractors didn’t help him I gave him a bottle and the following work week he is in no pain and works his overtime no bull I know this work all you have to due is try it


Ningxia Red is not designed for weigh loss. This is misunderstood. Ningxia Red is for nutrition and energy. I use it every morning and also use the Ningxia Nitro which is a safe 5 hour power. Another misconception here is that you have to purchase large quantities and that is false. You can purchase the 30 pack of 2 oz singles for about $35.00 if you are a member of young living and choose to live the healthy lifestyle they promote. I choose to live a healthy lifestyle and Ningxia is part of that.


The 30 pack of 2oz singles is actually $84.50 plus tax as a member, HOWEVER, it boils down to a mere $3 a day for a product that is designed to support your immune and so many other systems! This product is amazing and it does exactly what it claims!


It’s a great product but the price (for members) of 30 2 ounce packets is $84.50


NingXia Red is intended to boost overall energy, health and wellness which in turn may increase weightloss.

Your NameSue

i started taking it for my MS. Pain has been excruciating. On the ningxia red, I felt great. The knee is shot, but other than that, I was pretty much pain free. Expensive, but so far, I think worth it.


My family lives the YL oil life! We have been using NingXia for over a year and I see so many great results. Our ammiune systems are working amazing. We can spend hours running around playing and whatever life falls our way. It doesn’t help you lose weight but it helps you have a better appetite for being active. I would love to share more because it’s been a blessing since I signed up for Youngliving.


To experience the full benefit take 1-2 ounces a day. In 3 weeks every ache and pain was gone! Give it three weeks to a
Month before you decide !

Philip King

I am 74yo, Ihave been in reasonable health most of my life, however, about 5 months ago I started getting severe pain in my right hip, that got worse by the day; I had trouble entering my home with 16 stairs, could not walk around a supermarket without a trolly to lean on, I was advised to try NingXia capsules, they arrived,and I took the first capsule, believe this or not, I dont care, next day I was pain free, and stairs were no problem, also within 3 weeks 3 friends asked me “what are you doing? you look so well, the bags under your eyes have gone, and you look different,I was amazed, I feel a different person, I am on these capsules forever, thats my testimony, take it for what it’s worth


I am offering support and a free essential oil for all orders placed with me.I am so happy that you are getting the positive benefits.

rebecca hofer

email me, I wanna know more about ningxia? if itll help for leg pain, and abt a free bottle of oilsmile

Your Name

It is. It a capsule. It’s a drink. BS flag raised.


Where are you finding NingXia Red capsules?

Kayour Name

I am diabetic how does it work with that

Hi! Because of possible interactions, please make sure to consult with your physician before taking this product.

Former Ningxia Red user

My concern is an ingredient in this product called sodium benzoate.


2 bottles for $71, not one.


They said two – one liter bottles. I think is what the article says.


Each bottle contains 750ml – that’s around 26 ounces. They come in twos!

Terica Starkes

Interested in a product that would boost immune system & provide extra energy.
I am 71 years old & am only interested in products that will help me individually.
Thank you for your feedback.


This product is exactly that. Hope you try it!

YPhyllis Johnson

I am not interested in any diet aspects. I understand our bodies need at least 90 different minerals, ameno acids ,etc, to function in complete health. I would like to see a list of these to know how many ot the 90 are covered by NingXia Red. I have had one bottle and ready to open the 2nd one. Thank you.


Ningxia Red, Ningxia’s pride, Ningxia people’s nutritious wine-you can call it a kind of functional wine, I like it, also I love the taste. By the way, as a Ningxia people, I am also proud of my native identity

Your NameDeb

I was skeptical believe me….especially with the price because I don’t have a overflow of cash, it is month to month, bill to bill. Anyway~I LOVE the Ningxia….I was always tired, sore from head to toe. I have fibromyalgia, arthritis, pre-COPD, overweight and Type 2 Diabetes, problems with digestive elimination & depression. I started Ningxia felt a bit better the next day, I did it for a week…felt really good. Then I stopped due to $ and feeling guilty, I felt like crap again. I now drink it on a daily basis, it is my morning cocktail, personally I love the flavor~it’s my new wine and now it’s a part of my daily regiman sometimes 2 or 3 times I will pour a 1/2″ in a glass and sip it, love the flavor and can taste the oils…! I have more energy, body moves better with much less pain, now my digestive system eliminates on a daily basis instead or every 7 – 9 days. I have herniated discs ~ it helps but I do know it won’t make them un~herniate…then everyone have their hands in this! I Love Ningxia and I would and will recommend it for anyone to try. Give it a chance with at least one bottle on a routine daily suggested amount and see what it does for you….everyone’s body is different, but it sure helped this body!


these comments are the best yet! I had the same problem s and just a couple of doses I was searching the web. In this day and age I wish I knew if it is safe for my pregnant daughter.
If you compare the cost ,$2’50 per small pkg. Consider what you pay for cocktails? It’s minute when compare to other thiings
Thanks, my experience was serendipitous